Two years ago, Perpetual Groove announced an indefinite hiatus. Now back and better than ever, P. Groove is doing things on their own terms and genuinely enjoying the experience. Guitarist Brock Butler talks about the perpetual nature of his band, and how getting into legal trouble greatly contributed to his band’s newfound prosperity. Butler remains optimistic about new music, and even the potential return of the group’s own festival, Amberland.
Read on to see Butler’s conversation with L4LM’s own Rex Thomson, below:
L4LM: First off…welcome back! I know a lot of your fans were so sad to see Perpetual Groove announce the hiatus a couple years ago.. At the very least it was a crime against the name.
BB: Yeah, we left that door open…Like that band One Direction. That guy quit, and everybody was like…”I guess he decided to go in a different direction”. (Laughs) So to imply the infinite, the “Perpetual,” by definition we set out against the laws of physics I suppose…
L4LM: How emotional were those few last shows?
BB: We were pretty emotional, sure, but I think these recent shows, the return, the emotions have been more powerful, definitely more positive ones. The environment leading up to the hiatus was high stress and obviously not very fun. I think that was all around. I know that I…certainly…(Long Pause) I won’t deny carrying the lion’s share of the weight…certain things that caused us the most discord…but I think twelve years being unable to break through this certain ceiling on us as far as the business model is concerned. It’s a grind, for sure, so honestly…it (The hiatus) was emotional, sure, but it was also a relief for me as well. I got back to my hometown of Virginia, and I just laid down and took a much needed break.
L4LM: How has the reception to your return been?
BB: Oh, it’s been amazing. Just in general, everyone in the group is getting along really well, working hard to be understanding. The model we have right now, doing these two night stands in different regions…it’s been really cool to do it that way. We’ve gotten to put a lot of energy into the song selections, and no one is getting too spread thin or tired or anything like that. Seeing some of these faces again…I don’t know if I have the words…It’s hard to describe but simply put, it’s great!
During the two year hiatus, especially during the front half of it, I would look on Facebook, and, y’know, life goes on. I was kinda resigned to watch it slip away…my legal situation made me unable to leave the state. I knew people enjoyed our shows and whatever, but people move on and I thought “We won’t be remembered,” and I got a little “Poor, poor old me.” But then I started doing my own YouTube channel, and started putting some acoustic material there. When I put some of the PGroove material up there, people reached out and got in touch with me, and it over time I realized that we were remembered.
It was always special, but it’s even more sacred for me. I think for our hardcore fans, and I know that’s not a ton of people, but they are out there…the quality of the people in our audience…it’s a beautiful thing. Another thing that just occurred to me…each one of these new shows is somebody’s FIRST Perpetual Groove show. For whatever reason, it hadn’t occurred to me that even though we weren’t touring, people were still finding our music and getting exposed to it for the first time. That happens to me all the time, someone turns me onto a band, then I find out they’re not together anymore. So I think it’s pretty cool to realize that even though we weren’t out there, grinding on the road, that the music speaks for itself.
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L4LM: And with you coming back, these new fans get the joy of seeing you live after all.
BB: Yeah. At the risk of sounding narcissistic, I feel like the quality of my playing, the whole band’s playing, is as solid as it’s ever been. My singing in particular. My taking better care of myself, being rested…I know it’s pretty obvious stuff, but with the singing especially…there are definitely some shows, pre-hiatus, that are painful to listen to for me. (Chuckles) I can hear myself and my lack of breathing control…just faded and exhausted.
L4LM: It’s been covered extensively elsewhere, but basically you got grounded by the government for a bit.
BB: Yeah, I got arrested and sent to drug court. I feel like I’m a better person for having taken that option. Basically, they said “Well, you seem like someone who could benefit from this kinda structure and support.” The program is designed to be done in one year. They help you with counseling and stuff, to stay on top of everything and get the job done. So if you qualify, they’ll put you in this drug court diversion thing, but if you don’t comply, keep up with the program, they’ll terminate ya and you’ll have to go and serve whatever time was hanging over your head. For me it was either three years in jail or one year in drug court. And that’s quite a motivation! (Chuckles)
L4LM: (Laughs)
BB: The first couple months I certainly wasn’t thrilled about it. I couldn’t find the positives of it at all, besides the “No jail” thing. It’s funny though, as time went by I started seeing some positives. I’ve never really been a morning person, but as I started sleeping better at night, having that routine, sleeping in the same bed every night, versus the life on the road…would we have a room that night, would we be on the bus…bad eating habits…all those things add up. It became something that I took to really well.
I’m thankful every day for the fact that I’m not in jail, though I did have to go and spend a couple nights there. It was pretty terrible. When you can’t choose something simple like when you want to get up or where you wanna sleep, like the couch or the bed…TV on or off…to pick up your guitar and play it…all the things you lose…there’s just nothing going on. It’s painful to think about. You just sit there and stare into yourself. I’m not sure most people would see sitting here and doing this lil interview as a joy, but it is to me.
Oh, and flavor. I was in there for twelve days and I lost eight pounds. It wasn’t that I wasn’t eating, but what they’re allowed to pass off as food…just the barest minimum of nutritional value. The way people were in there…their attitudes…it’s great to have this out of my life, to have a couple of these things gone. And I’ve gotten some good from it beyond the program. I have a special lady in my life, and our paths wouldn’t have crossed if we weren’t both in Virginia, and I’ve said that if I knew what I would come out of this experience in my life, and I had the chance to make the choice over, I wouldn’t hesitate to do the same thing again. And having to pee in a cup three times a week, for the state, that made it easier for the guys to trust me and have faith that I was really starting to be healthier. People who self medicate tend to be less healthy to begin with.
L4LM: It’s easy to look at a musician’s life style and think, “they’re addicted to that stuff because they’re partying all the time,” but sometimes it’s a much more simple, human reason…you’re just looking for a way to make the pain stop. I’m glad there was a way to keep you from losing a bigger chunk of your life than you did through this program.
BB: In my case, it was definitely a mixture of the two. I certainly liked to have a good time. I had a kidney stone surgery, and that’s the first time I can recalling taking something and thinking “Wow! I sure would like to feel this way all the time!” But when it stops being “Hey! Let’s all get wild and crazy for a night!” and you start budgeting your time and life around trying to prevent being uncomfortable…or in pain…then you’ve got trouble.
L4LM: I was hesitant to ask you about all this, not because of the subject matter, but because you were so open about the whole experience on social media while it was unfolding.
BB: I made a decision, early on, to be as open as I could be about all my problems. Rather than fall off the face of the Earth for a year, and have to explain where I’d been a couple of hundred times to individuals, “Oh where have you been for a year?” There were a few things I didn’t anticipate about it. I had a family member disagree with me…y’know, I had gotten in some trouble, and now I was doing all of this out in public. I tried to understand where he was coming from, but in my case there ended up being a lot of people reaching out wanting to discuss their similar situations, or offer their support. Some folks told me they’d been through it and how it helped them, a couple people said they were considering the option and asked me about my experience…so it opened a discussion, and I’m glad for that.
L4LM: Let’s go back to the beginning. I understand you guys met at the Savannah College of Art & Design. I almost attended that institution myself. What we you studying?
BB: I initially went there for sequential art. That’s a fancy word for comics. (Chuckles) I really liked a lot of what was going on at the time… The Far Side was so funny… Calvin and Hobbes were both really great ones. Both Waterson and Larson both retired, and I started to realize a lot of people at the Savannah School of Art & Design were there for more serious, deep graphic novel stuff. I had always enjoyed stuff like Spider-man, the Avengers and Batman and stuff like that but I found that most of the people I was meeting that I was becoming quick friends with were in the film and sound programs.
I realized that one of the things I liked about strips like “Calvin & Hobbes” were that those creators didn’t get their ideas out of a school, they didn’t get taught how to be special. They had their own unique thing that made them what they were. If I ever decide to try and do a comic strip one day, y’know, for fun, It’ll be my own style, not because of my training. And, job opportunity wise, doing film and doing music for films is more of a sensible switch, for what turned out to be my area of expertise.
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L4LM: You formed a bluegrass side band called PGrass to help fill the time while you were grounded. I understand you’ve changed the name. What was the reasoning for that?
BB: We were calling it PGrass, but then we had to start calling it Weather and Waves. Once Perpetual Groove started advertising the reunion and booking gigs, we were seeing some confusion among buyers and agents. We had clubs and promoters calling the PGrass folks for PGroove, and vice versa.
L4LM: How did you enjoy reinterpreting your songs for this new genre? Are you planning on keeping that project going?
BB: I wanted it to not just be a tribute band, like a “pickin’ on” series. Justin from JJ Grey and Mofro saw me playing some acoustic P Groove on my Youtube channel and said he played some banjo and that he was a big fan of my band, that he had seen us at Bonnaroo in ’05, and he knew I couldn’t leave Virginia.
So he asked me if I wanted to do my one man acoustic thing and open for them at a couple of their in state shows, and maybe sit in on a couple of their songs. I said all that sounds fantastic, and we talked for about a week. I don’t know if the idea struck him at this point or he was just waiting til he was comfortable enough with the situation to ask, but he wondered how I would feel about taking some of the Perpetual Groove material and reworking it for a more bluegrass and Americana feel.
I was all about it…certainly not all the material transfers, but a fair bit of it started with me and my acoustic anyway. If I try and describe the process to people, it’s like I built a framework of a house. If the foundation is there, then you can take this house, or this song, then you could put cellos with it, you could add synthesizers…we would always make them into rock songs. But it you take all that away, and add a mandolin, a stand up bass, a vocal harmony…to me…the emotion changes. To me, that’s the sign of a quality of a song, if it can be stripped down to a minimalist way…and it could still resonate and have power…that’s the sign of a good song.
L4LM: Who’d have know drug court could be so helpful?
BB: (Laughs) I know. I’ve certainly come to value my rest. And now, getting back out there…I just did Camp Barefoot as an “Artist At Large” and we did a Weather and Waves show on the way down to Atlanta to rehearse with the PGroove guys, then drove up to Nashville and did that, then added a solo show on Sunday, then managed to make it back home in time to do my regular Monday gig here in town. Heck, right now I am in my car on the way to do a Brock Butler Trio show! It’s good to be back to work. I’m really relieved to be back to doing this, I really do love to travel.
L4LM: You’re one of the most tireless players I have ever witnessed. Any idea of your personal record for playing guitar in a day?
BB: It would probably have to be Amberland. [Amberland was the festival Perpetual Groove hosted annually in Georgia] I think if you counted all the time I had a guitar in my hands, from the Friday night open jam to the Sunday night closer it came out to something like thirty hours. (Chuckles)
L4LM: DAMNATION!
BB: Yeah, my acoustic Sunday morning thing alone was four hours. The open jam on Friday was about three hours, then seven hours of PGroove Saturday and Sunday…it got up there. (Laughs)
L4LM: It sounds like you earned your check!
BB: I hope so!
L4LM: I remember you once visited my camp at The Spirit Of The Suwannee Music Park, and playing around our campfire as I went to bed. I woke up 6 hours later and you were still there strumming, with attentive faces all around. Have you ever fallen asleep while playing?
BB: (Laughs) No, I don’t think so…(Laughs) Maybe I got a little dazed… maybe my mind wandered a bit.
L4LM: With all this new energy, any are you writing songs or thinking about heading back into the studio?
BB: We’re definitely having conversations about content, and I have strummed a little bit of something new. Over these two years I never stopped writing songs, so there’s all sorts of stuff that I’ve written, and I’m sure the other guys have stuff as well. Over these last rehearsals we’ve discussed getting some new material together, and ways to record it. I think everybody’s on-board, and I think that would be great! I don’t think we’re ready to get into too many particulars just yet, but we all seem pretty clear and on focus. I tell ya, I’m pretty excited.
I wrote some songs, that honestly, I played with the PGroove guys for so long, I just had moments that I knew would sound great if, say Brad was playing it. You play with someone for so long, like I did with them, and you just hear them playing the stuff in your head. There’s one in particular that I am really hoping they’ll all be into when I show it to them. I think there’s a lot of things to look forward to. I think the two year break wasn’t just good for me…I think everyone learned a bit about themselves…it’s natural.
L4LM: I tried to ask your fan groups for some questions, but they are notoriously kinda…weird. One the most asked thing that I did wanna bring up on their behalf…what are the chances that your band’s Amberland festival could return?
BB: Oh, there’s always a possibility. Now that we’re back together, the things that we’ve learned…as individuals and as a band…we’ve learned how NOT to do some things. It’s certainly possible. In the past it was the culmination of a year’s worth of touring, and a chance to unveil new material, but I think it could work again.
L4LM: PGroove has always had some of the best lights of any band your size. As a ginger, have you ever been worried about spontaneous combustion?
BB: (Laughs) No, but I have have really felt the heat in way that maybe a person with a soul wouldn’t. (Laughs)
L4LM: How do you decide what to say during sound check?
BB: I usually sing a verse from either “The Only Living Boy In New York” by Paul Simon or something from The Beatles like…(singing) “You say yes, I say no’…those ten to have the range that I sing in one song…and I try and remember to lean in and out from the microphone. Nothing too exciting…I studied sound design in college, like I said. I got my bachelors in film and my minor in sound design, and I think that that helps me, to have an understanding of the physics of sound, to pick up patterns with microphones, and it helps me as a singer. Hopefully it makes it easier for “Front Of House,” the sound designer, and everyone else.
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L4LM: Lil Kevin asked: “Do you give guitar lessons?”
BB: (Chuckles) I have. It’s certainly hard, when you travel or when you’re stuck at home for a year. (Chuckles) I like to have actual, physical face time with a person, as opposed to something like Skype. Plus, you need to have a schedule, a weekly routine…it’s kind of crucial to the learning process. There’s a human element to teaching that is very important, not just to show someone what you’re talking about, but to connect with them and really understand each other.
L4LM: Well, thanks for taking the time to talk to us! This was a lot of fun for me to pick your brain. Can’t wait to see you out there rocking again!
BB: You’re welcome! See you soon!